Curse

JjK · Jun 23, 2005, 01:16 AM // 01:16

My only arguements were toward Loviatar 's childish replies, even if he did have a point, taht is no way to point it out.

Loviatar · Jun 23, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

[QUOTE=Silmor]Loviatar, using the -character name- Guild Wars in ArenaNet's own game has nothing to do with trademark violation. Stop acting like an authority on fields you clearly know nothing about.

QUOTE]

show me any place where it is legal and permitted to use a registered trademark under any condition without the WRITTEN permission of the trademark holder of record and i will be happy to admit i am wrong

until then in your own words

Stop acting like an authority on fields you clearly know nothing about.

eA-Zaku · Jun 23, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

TECHNICALLY speaking...G U I L D W A R S should be nine different words. Not the term "Guild Wars" which is licensed. Or am I wrong? Did Arenanet license the letters G U I L D W A R S so that if those letters appear consecutively in any way or form, it is a copyright infringement?

So...G-U-I-L-D-W-A-R-S and G_U_I_L_D_W_A_R_S are also off limit?

prodigy ming · Jun 23, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

so if i have any in game character name like grenth or balthazar they are going to ban my character?

Dax · Jun 23, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

According to thier EULA looks to me they have it covered, even if they suspect you violated something.

http://www.guildwars.com/legal/user-agreement.html

section 4d

Silmor · Jun 23, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by U.S. Trademark law

TITLE VI - REMEDIES
§32 (15 U.S.C. §1114). Remedies; infringement; innocent infringers

(1) Any person who shall, without the consent of the registrant—

(a) use in commerce any reproduction, counterfeit, copy, or colorable imitation of a registered mark in connection with the sale, offering for sale, distribution, or advertising of any goods or services on or in connection with which such use is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive; or

(b) reproduce, counterfeit, copy or colorably imitate a registered mark and apply such reproduction, counterfeit, copy or colorable imitation to labels, signs, prints, packages, wrappers, receptacles or advertisements intended to be used in commerce upon or in connection with the sale, offering for sale, distribution, or advertising of goods or services on or in connection with which such use is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive,

shall be liable in a civil action by the registrant for the remedies hereinafter provided. Under subsection (b) hereof, the registrant shall not be entitled to recover profits or damages unless the acts have been committed with knowledge that such imitation is intended to be used to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive.

-snip-

Quote:

Originally Posted by idem

(2) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, the remedies given to the owner of a right infringed under this Act or to a person bringing an action under section 43(a) or (d) shall be limited as follows:

(A) Where an infringer or violator is engaged solely in the business of printing the mark or violating matter for others and establishes that he or she was an innocent infringer or innocent violator, the owner of the right infringed or person bringing the action under section 43(a) shall be entitled as against such infringer or violator only to an injunction against future printing.

There you go. In case you'd like to brush up on your 'business law', http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmlaw2.html would be a nice place to start. The issue here clearly isn't trademark infringement, my guess is they're just making sure he can't be mistaken for a representative of their company in-game. Your statement 'they HAVE to protect their trademark' would apply if some company launched a computer game called Guild Wars as well - that's the sort of infringement these laws were drafted for.

Ofcourse they have the full right to moderate names as they see fit, all I'm saying is that banning certain names without prior warning or announcement is rather harsh, and I'm sure JjK will be able to solve this conflict with ArenaNet soon enough if he manages to communicate the misunderstanding to them.

Ninna · Jun 23, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I wish Anet was able to support renaming characters who are deemed to have inappropiate names

Anet has said it may be a future game enhancement

Yamat · Jun 23, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

so if i have any in game character name like grenth or balthazar they are going to ban my character?

No, because they aren't trademarks... yet!

Loviatar · Jun 23, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

-snip-
There you go. In case you'd like to brush up on your 'business law', http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmlaw2.html would be a nice place to start.

since it is obviously not obscene or objectionable the powers that be at Anet must have had a reason to protect their trademark by making it off limits

again i ask you to show the part that says that a person may use a registered trademark WITHOUT THE WRITTEN PERMISSION of the registered holder

Anet has taken this opportunity to say dont use the name of this game for a character as we have allready trademarked it

Dumachum · Jun 23, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

The way I see it...

Stupid player #879764 makes stupid unfit character name #9895674 and ends up getting banned. Intelligent player #22 feels no remorse.

Don't make retarded names YOU KNOW you shouldn;t be making and you won;t ever get banned. Aka don't name a character after a place or thing.

Silmor · Jun 23, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Look, according to your reasoning ArenaNet would be able to sue everyone who ever typed 'Guild Wars' on this forum, since they'd need to 'protect their trademark'. That's quite simply not how it works, and that's not what is at play here, regardless of how stubborn or stupid you want to be about it. I actually quoted the provisions that constitute trademark infringement, if you don't care to read or understand them, then that's that.

It's like I'd quote larceny law for you, and you'd challenge me to point out a specific law that says you are allowed to just touch other people's property, maintaining that until I find such a law, you'll consider that it's proven illegal to do so.

Divinitys Creature · Jun 23, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

This is just another case that proves the banning procedure needs refinement. They should have a warning with a chance to change the name instead of deleting your account or char.

Loviatar · Jun 23, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Look, according to your reasoning ArenaNet would be able to sue everyone who ever typed 'Guild Wars' on this forum, since they'd need to 'protect their trademark'. That's quite simply not how it works, and that's not what is at play here, regardless of how stubborn or stupid you want to be about it. I actually quoted the provisions that constitute trademark infringement, if you don't care to read or understand them, then that's that.

It's like I'd quote larceny law for you, and you'd challenge me to point out a specific law that says you are allowed to just touch other people's property, maintaining that until I find such a law, you'll consider that it's proven illegal to do so.

here is a small example which does not involve the creating of a game by a company but only the free distribution of a few icons

to quote the letter on that which was received by the person who had them up for a bit on his site

only icons by a fan mind you

Quote:

It has come to our attention that you have caused the creation and distribution of a collection of icons which reproduce the characters, images, voices, sounds and other distinctive elements of the copyrighted television series entitled, "THE SIMPSONS". Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation ("Fox") owns all rights under copyright and trademark in and to "THE SIMPSONS". Your creation and distribution of these icons patently and unavoidably infringes Fox's rights.

This course of conduct exposes you to substantial monetary damages and injunctive relief in favor of Fox. As you may be aware, such damages for copyright infringement can include statutory penalties of as much as $100,000 for willful infringement, damages under laws governing trademarks, and punitive damages under laws of unfair competition.

In view of the foregoing, we hearby demand that you do the following:

1. Immediately cease and desist all further creation, distribution, advertising, promotion, posting or any other exploitation of the referenced icons, or any other activity which utilizes the characters, images, voices, sounds, designs or other elements of "THE SIMPSONS" in any way whatsoever;

2. Immediately order all such icons, as well as all related artwork, and other materials, or any other use thereof, to be withdrawn;

3. Deliver to a designated representative of our office all disks containing such icons, all related artwork, or any other materials on hand;

4. Provide Fox with an itemized accounting of any and all revenues resulting from exploitation of such icons so that Fox can determine its damages;

5. Provide Fox with the names and addresses of all persons to whom such infringing icons have been sold and/or distributed, or who are known to you to have received, used and/or further distributed such icons. In addition, please provide Fox with the names of all internet servers on which you know such icons have been posted.

6. Confirm to the undersigned in writing, by letter received in our office not later than 5:00 p.m. on November 10, 1995, that you shall fully and promptly comply with each of the foregoing demands (at which time specific arrangements for turnover of materials can be finalized).

If we have not received your full and voluntary compliance with each of the foregoing demands by the deadline specified, be advised that we shall, without further notice to you, take all available legal action to compel the discontinuation of your use and exploitation of the infringing icons, to recover monetary damages to the full extent allowed by law, including attorney's fees and costs of suit, and to obtain such additional legal and/or equitable relief as the court may allow in the circumstances. We hope that your voluntary compliance with the foregoing reasonable and lawful demands will make the initiation of legal action against you unnecessary.

Finally, be advised that nothing contained in this letter as, or may be deemed or construed to constitute, a waiver or relinquishment of any of Fox's rights and remedies in the premise, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.

you may substitute GUILDWARS for SIMPSONS to get the idea

StandardAI · Jun 23, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

True, except it was g u i l d w a r s, and not guildwars, and the fact that he isn't making any money off of his guildwars name, where the person who was selling simpsons icons obviously was making money.

Silmor · Jun 23, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Do you honestly, seriously believe that if I put up a webpage that said "Guild Wars", ArenaNet would be able to sue me for trademark infringement? Because that's the functional equivalent of the context of this cease & desist letter. Simpsons icons for Guild Wars letters.

I'm allowing for an incredible amount of leniency in your example, because the context and subject matter in both cases are totally different, and this is nothing more than a cease and desist letter that doesn't need to have any legal basis whatsoever - if you want to prove your point, present some jurisprudence regarding this issue.

Finally, as you are undoubtedly aware, this cease and desist letter is a warning that gives the infringing party the opportunity to remedy the supposed infringement. Which is all JjK is asking for, and I believe that is entirely fair.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 23, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JjK

You forgot #3
3. Crylike a baby, and rant

It appears you sir are guilty of this very infraction.
Stupid name choice by the way - I would have went with "Microsoft"

Talesin

Dax · Jun 23, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

From the GW EULA:

You may not select as your Character Name the name of another person, or a name which violates any third party’s trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive or its affiliated companies, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive. NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Character Name or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right.

Navaros · Jun 23, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JjK

This is a serious matter, uless you are over 18/lawyer/GW staff, do not reply.

dude, why are you criticsizing Loviatar for being honest with you?

what he has told you is 100% correct

your 50 bucks for the game is not enough for them to warrant losing the Guild Wars IP just so you can have a name you like

it's stupid -yet true - legal mumbo jumbo that has forced them to protect their IP and thus axe your name

for this issue you need to blame the copyright lawmakers, not the devs

Synncial77 · Jun 23, 2005, 02:39 AM // 02:39

The main issue here is WHY this name was banned.

Reading over the EULA there's clearly no copyright infringement. Section 4d says that you may not use and THIRD PARTY copyrighted names. Thus, first party names should be alright.

They also say that you can't make names that mislead people into thinking you're an Anet representative. Seriously, who would ever mistake that name for an "official" name. It's pretty clear considering the number of spaces in it and that it simply says "Guildwars". "Guildwars Admin" or "Customer Service" I could see.

Now, also in section 4d they say that they can ban any name for any reason at their sole discretion. I know people are going to chant "you're on their servers so they can do whatever they want" but seriously, haven't any of you heard about BOTH maintaining order and keeping your customers?

I really don't like this. If they could force a rename the next time you log in then I'd be down with that. If they don't like my name for any insignifigant reason and simply required a rename then no one would lose anything and there'd be very little hurt feelings. BUT, banning a character and freezing all his assets because of a possibly arbitrary decision that a name is not right is really wrong. It's one thing to ban an extremely offensive name. Most people understand what words REALLY aren't allowed. I don't like the idea that my character could be taken away because I thought of something "witty" that I wanted to play under (Is Santa Claws ok? How about 'The red headed defiler'?)

This particular thing should have been written in big bold letters on the box of the retail game. The ONLY reference to this on the box is "Acceptance of certain agreements is required". It doesn't even provide a specific link. Ok...so this is basically saying that if you want to buy this game (say you're passing through the software section of you local computer store or Walmart) you should just go home and find where the license agreement is online? Personal purchase, birthday gift, graduation present...it doesn't matter. If YOU don't take the initiative to find all the legal disclaimers before making this purchase then you deserve what you get.

One thing that would make me "drop this" if they actually had the balls to write on the box "Anet reserves the right to ban/remove access to any account at Anet's discretion" then I would say that that pretty much covers every possibility. But, of course that's not printed on the label. That would scare too many potential customers.

Silmor · Jun 23, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

You may not select as your Character Name the name of another person, or a name which violates any third party’s trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive or its affiliated companies, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive. NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Character Name or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right.

Just thought I'd highlight the more appropriate bit.
The EULA pretty much gives them full right to terminate any name they want - license agreements are usually drafted in such a broad fashion to avoid this kind of petty discussion. That doesn't mean they will enforce this EULA absolutely - they will do so within reason, and as need dictates. In this case, the need is to thwart people attempting to impersonate official ArenaNet staff for illicit purposes.
Yes, it's a violation of the EULA, but since it was not intended maliciously I assume this issue will be resolved in a mutually satisfactory manner, and I hope to hear news from JjK to that end in this thread eventually.